PDP’ll never underrate Nigerians again – Babatope
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Chief Ebenezer Babatope is a former Minister of Transport and a member of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) Board of Trustees (BoT). In this interview aired on Abeokuta, Ogun State Rockcity FM and monitored by LAWRENCE ENYOGHASU, he disclosed that the former ruling party, PDP, has learnt bitter lessons from the 2015 general elections, which will guard it against underrating Nigerians in future elections. Excerpts:
I want us to look at the projections or the plans of the PDP ahead of 2019. What are you doing to come together, resolve your differences and of course to present a formidable opposition to the APC?
We’re doing that and we’re going to do more because we believe that if we get our perspectives correct, the PDP will come back to power by the grace of God, by 2019. For example, if we are poised to have a candidate in 2019, it will not be politically wise for the PDP, I’m expressing a personal opinion now, which I’m going to canvass within party, to field a southerner as candidate, not because Buhari is a northerner, we run a regional policy in PDP, our founding fathers, 34 of them met in 1998 and felt that we should rotate the presidency and it started with the southwest. We should as a party go to the north and pick our candidate and settle for electoral fight/electoral battle with APC and possibly APC adopting Buhari to contest the election, once we do that, we’ll be set. I’ve always also canvassed that the time we are now, has called for a radical change for the PDP-that is we should allow the younger elements within the party to take over the party on all ramifications so that they’ll be responsible for leading the fight and we the elders will be behind them. For example, the younger people, they are the people who control the social media, the Facebook etc. They also control all the modern organizational methods being used now to project the party forward. They should come to the fore and we should expect that when these things happen, I can assure you that the PDP will take power back from APC.
Are you of the opinion that an average Nigerian will be ready to give the PDP another chance after 16 years of being in power, they rejected you at 2015 elections, and they will now hand over power to you in 2019?
We’re not going to make mistakes in terms of ever underrating the people of Nigeria, and Nigerian people are politically volatile people. They will tell you yes is yes, after they have found out that that yes is conclusively yes, so we believe that the 16 years have come because that was what Nigeria wanted. The APC will have to decide what will be the attitude of Nigerians to the country and to them. So if the APC performs very poorly, of course nobody needs to tell Nigerians before they vote them out. And they’ll say ‘we dropped PDP before; let’s go back to the PDP again’. But I know that along the line, APC will make mistakes. There are some magicians among the APC who are now saying age is against Buhari and therefore Buhari must not contest in 2019. Well, I wish them the best of luck because any mistake they make, dances to the fortune of the PDP. So when they do that, we shall collect power.
2019 is going to be interesting, are you thinking of fielding a young northerner as president?
This question of young or old doesn’t relate to government, in many countries of the world. The people who are above 70 are ruling but you see, when you talk of leadership, the ability of the younger element to provide movement that will catapult the PDP to victory lies with the youth and therefore there is no pint for me. I wanted to be the PDP National Secretary sometimes ago. It will be stupidity of the worst order if I now say I want to go and contest even as chairman, PDP, age is not on my side. Biological process of human development will take its toll. But if we have younger elements leading the party and then you have older elements like me and others back them up. Of course, you’re going to give strength to the party, give hope to the party, and we’re going to inject a drive that will make sure we defeat the APC in the elections.
Are you of the opinion that youths in this country are ready to take over from people like you?
Why not? Don’t forget, I became the director of organisation of the Unity Party of Nigeria led by the late Obafemi Awolowo at the age of 35. When people were saying Ebenezer is too young, papa told them no, that there are many reasons he has to be there – his generation will never allow him to fail, they will surround him, and not only that, he has got the strength. Let me give you a practical example. I cannot run 100 meters with you now or with those who are young. If I do, I am endangering my health because by the time we finish, you’ll not only gap me, I’ll be panting in such a manner that if I’m not careful, I could pass-on. It is the younger people who have got the strength, health wise to make the mark and to go to miles. Now I go from my hometown to Abuja by road because if I fly, I have to travel three and half hours from my hometown to Lagos, fly one hour, that is four and half hours, then wait minutes at the airport. You put them together; it is the same thing as going by road. But the younger elements do it and it doesn’t affect them. If they want to go by air, they go by air. Their health is intact. Once I go to Abuja by road, I cannot go to any meeting immediately because I have to rest and sleep, and wake up very active the next day. That is why I believe the younger elements must prepare themselves to take over. For example, in Ijesha in Osun state, I have been given the opportunity by my people to be their leader for 12/13 years now. I am the chairman of Ijesha PDP elders caucus but I have told myself and many of my people, I’ll give the position up, and ask them to go and look for a younger element who will lead us to ensure that they achieve result.
Let’s look at the person of late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, would you say that we have actually elected or we have someone that can actually step into his big shoes right now in Nigeria?
The question of stepping into papa’s big shoes will be decided by history and by the attitude of those who are in politics now as regards the contending forces in that history and that politics. Papa was a different kind of person. He was a visionary and he knew what step to take to actualize his vision. So, right now, we have many people who are claiming that they are wearing papa’s glasses, they are wearing papa’s cap. But at the end of the day, those things are not what will decide who will lead Yoruba or lead Nigerians as papa Awolowo had done. What will definitely determine what in fact papa Awolowo had done and somebody say he wants to take over would be that person’s attitude towards Nigeria as a nation, towards Yoruba tribe and whatever. Because papa Awolowo used to say before you can be a good Nigerian citizen, you must first and foremost be a good person from your tribe. That is what is happening. The person to lead as papa led us may just be trying to enter the university now. Even if he’s in politics now, he may just be trying to build a kind of integrity that will be acknowledged by everybody. So, we should not be in a rush. All those who are thinking they are Awolowo incarnate, good luck to them because they are trying to imitate him, a great man, so good luck to them. As far as I’m concerned, I’m lucky enough to have been trained and brought up by papa Awolowo and everything that I’ve done in my life, have been patterned on the life of papa Awolowo, and I’m sure that many other people who have the opportunity and then many other things will place in their hands to say you can make a trust for papa Awolowo’s leadership. The people of Nigeria are going to see it and they are going to concede to that fellow.
What would you say about the fact that Asiwaju Bola Tinubu did what baba Awolowo tried to do by making Yoruba actually get power at the centre and bring them into the mainstream of national politics?
This mainstream; I have always called it ‘mainstream nonsense’. It’s not a question of talking about Asiwaju Bola Tinubu now, no. Bola is a young man I like; quite younger than me in age, and I understand the policy of Bola. For example, Bola will not ascribe or will not allow anybody to use his name against what you have said. What is mainstream? When the PDP came into power in 1999, some people were saying Obasanjo has brought Yoruba to the mainstream. What mainstream? The Yoruba has always been in the mainstream. When papa Awolowo had the Action Group, he was in alliance with the UNBC of Solomon Takar. He was in alliance with the people from Borno. The Borno Youth Movement, he was in alliance with people from Cross River state and Akwa Ibom state now. He led a Pan-Nigerian Progressive movement. The same way in the UPN, we have people in the assembly in Cross River, we have people in the assembly in Imo state, I think we have one member in Kano state. At one time, we ran government together with the GNPP of Waziri Ibrahim in Adamawa state. So, there has been no time where the Yoruba have not been a part of the mainstream. But quite unfortunately, there was a time in the history of this country, and that is correct, where a group of people feel that people in the north believe that Nigeria must remain Nigeria for as long as it is a permanent extension of their own territory. Nobody must aspire to rule except them. But that jinx has been broken. So Nigerians from all walks of life are now becoming president. So we should not play up this mainstream. Bola is doing his best and that is Bola’s politics. I’m not in APC with him. If I had to be in the APC with him, Bola knows himself that he will have to give respect, total respect to people like me because we don’t cheapen our participation and involvement in Nigerian politics, no. Our performance in the Nigerian politics is not because of money or what we are going to get from it. It is because of principles of uniting Nigeria and making sure that the people of Nigeria are the motive.
Would you say that Bola Tinubu’s alliance with the northern elements to form APC and of course install the APC in power would actually lead to his political suicide?
No, he’s doing well. What he did is good. It is quite good for the APC. They are now in power. It is not a question of aligning himself with the North. We, in the PDP, we are amalgam of all the various political interests in Nigeria, and that we still represent up till today. So, you cannot say Bola Tinubu is signing his political death warrant. No. He can only sign his political death warrant when he himself, with his own hand signs away all those things that make him a very strong politician now. It can happen to him, and that is why he must be very careful the way he treats those who are his colleagues. But like I said, Bola is one phenomenon, you cannot ignore. You have to know that Bola Tinubu exists politically and you must concede to him that he has been correct in his analysis. That they are now in power, he did a lot to actualize it. If the APC destroys him, the APC will eventually destroy itself. That’s all.
There’s a debate on, and of course as a political disciple of the late chief Awolowo, you are in the best position to talk about this. The debate is about the Yoruba nation, the Yoruba people and the leadership question. Former President Olusegun Obasanjo recently said in his book, My Watch; Politics and Public service that the Yoruba has never had a truly elected leader?
That is not correct! That is false! Absolutely false! Former President Obasanjo knows that he was not talking from the angle of historical truth. The Yoruba are not a sentimental people. Yoruba are pains-taking and Yoruba are very careful in arriving at political decisions. Papa Obafemi Awolowo was an acknowledged leader of the Yoruba people and Nigerian people. The conference that former president Obasanjo was talking about took place in 1966, General Adeyinka Adebayo (rtd), he was then the governor of the old western region. He convened the meeting, papa’s choice as leader of Yoruba as per what was happening in Nigeria at that time was unanimous. Nobody ever got up to say ‘no we don’t accept your leadership.’ No, they threw away all those sentiments and I will tell you something I have never told Nigerians before except probably I have mentioned it in my column. When papa died in 1987, Chief Richard Akinjide was in London. I was in Buckingham University reading Law. Chief Richard Akinjide wrote me a letter, I will not forget, it’s being published now in my book which I’m releasing. He wrote me a letter, commiserating with me on the death of baba Awolowo. So you see, the Yoruba know when to separate politics from trivialities. The Yoruba definitely know when realities end and illusions take over. So papa Awolowo was acknowledged as leader and papa did not say that because I’m leader, therefore I should fall. No. he respected the opinion of everybody and then the Chief Akinloye that Obasanjo mentioned. Chief Akinloye was in the same party with papa Awolowo in the Action Group from 1952 until we had the coup of 1966. So under no circumstance will I arguably have got up to say I don’t like your leadership. He never said so until he died. So Yoruba will definitely provide leadership when occasion calls for it. We will have the leader and the leader will go and fight for our cause but we will first fight that cause within the federation of Nigeria.
After the demise of Chief Awolowo, we had Pa Adekunle Ajasin stepping into that position to provide leadership for the Yoruba people especially during that era, we also had Pa Adesanya also stepping in after the demise of Pa Ajasin, after that the Afenifere came together and elected Pa Reuben Fasaranti to be the leader of Afenifere but it seems that the Yoruba have not been able to agree on who is the authentic leader of the Yoruba as we speak?
Because the occasion has not called for it, even when the occasion calls for it, for example- if the Yoruba’s interest have been threatened in Nigeria, that is the occasion calling for it and we have our leader. You are talking about Afenifere, I was a big part of Afenifere. It will interest you to know that I am not in Afenifere, I do not understand what Afenifere stands for, for now. But all the leaders of Afenifere were my leaders in the UPN and when it comes to individual perception of events, I must join myself with what they are thinking, so it is not a question of Yoruba are not able to pick a leader. Papa Ajasin and papa Adesanya, they were leaders, despite the fact that I was not a part of the Afenifere that they led, if they had called on me and many of my groups to participate in activities, I will definitely have given it because I know them, I know they are transparently honest Nigerians and their integrity is very high and it should be respected, so it is not a question of that.
We’re doing that and we’re going to do more because we believe that if we get our perspectives correct, the PDP will come back to power by the grace of God, by 2019. For example, if we are poised to have a candidate in 2019, it will not be politically wise for the PDP, I’m expressing a personal opinion now, which I’m going to canvass within party, to field a southerner as candidate, not because Buhari is a northerner, we run a regional policy in PDP, our founding fathers, 34 of them met in 1998 and felt that we should rotate the presidency and it started with the southwest. We should as a party go to the north and pick our candidate and settle for electoral fight/electoral battle with APC and possibly APC adopting Buhari to contest the election, once we do that, we’ll be set. I’ve always also canvassed that the time we are now, has called for a radical change for the PDP-that is we should allow the younger elements within the party to take over the party on all ramifications so that they’ll be responsible for leading the fight and we the elders will be behind them. For example, the younger people, they are the people who control the social media, the Facebook etc. They also control all the modern organizational methods being used now to project the party forward. They should come to the fore and we should expect that when these things happen, I can assure you that the PDP will take power back from APC.
Are you of the opinion that an average Nigerian will be ready to give the PDP another chance after 16 years of being in power, they rejected you at 2015 elections, and they will now hand over power to you in 2019?
We’re not going to make mistakes in terms of ever underrating the people of Nigeria, and Nigerian people are politically volatile people. They will tell you yes is yes, after they have found out that that yes is conclusively yes, so we believe that the 16 years have come because that was what Nigeria wanted. The APC will have to decide what will be the attitude of Nigerians to the country and to them. So if the APC performs very poorly, of course nobody needs to tell Nigerians before they vote them out. And they’ll say ‘we dropped PDP before; let’s go back to the PDP again’. But I know that along the line, APC will make mistakes. There are some magicians among the APC who are now saying age is against Buhari and therefore Buhari must not contest in 2019. Well, I wish them the best of luck because any mistake they make, dances to the fortune of the PDP. So when they do that, we shall collect power.
2019 is going to be interesting, are you thinking of fielding a young northerner as president?
This question of young or old doesn’t relate to government, in many countries of the world. The people who are above 70 are ruling but you see, when you talk of leadership, the ability of the younger element to provide movement that will catapult the PDP to victory lies with the youth and therefore there is no pint for me. I wanted to be the PDP National Secretary sometimes ago. It will be stupidity of the worst order if I now say I want to go and contest even as chairman, PDP, age is not on my side. Biological process of human development will take its toll. But if we have younger elements leading the party and then you have older elements like me and others back them up. Of course, you’re going to give strength to the party, give hope to the party, and we’re going to inject a drive that will make sure we defeat the APC in the elections.
Are you of the opinion that youths in this country are ready to take over from people like you?
Why not? Don’t forget, I became the director of organisation of the Unity Party of Nigeria led by the late Obafemi Awolowo at the age of 35. When people were saying Ebenezer is too young, papa told them no, that there are many reasons he has to be there – his generation will never allow him to fail, they will surround him, and not only that, he has got the strength. Let me give you a practical example. I cannot run 100 meters with you now or with those who are young. If I do, I am endangering my health because by the time we finish, you’ll not only gap me, I’ll be panting in such a manner that if I’m not careful, I could pass-on. It is the younger people who have got the strength, health wise to make the mark and to go to miles. Now I go from my hometown to Abuja by road because if I fly, I have to travel three and half hours from my hometown to Lagos, fly one hour, that is four and half hours, then wait minutes at the airport. You put them together; it is the same thing as going by road. But the younger elements do it and it doesn’t affect them. If they want to go by air, they go by air. Their health is intact. Once I go to Abuja by road, I cannot go to any meeting immediately because I have to rest and sleep, and wake up very active the next day. That is why I believe the younger elements must prepare themselves to take over. For example, in Ijesha in Osun state, I have been given the opportunity by my people to be their leader for 12/13 years now. I am the chairman of Ijesha PDP elders caucus but I have told myself and many of my people, I’ll give the position up, and ask them to go and look for a younger element who will lead us to ensure that they achieve result.
Let’s look at the person of late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, would you say that we have actually elected or we have someone that can actually step into his big shoes right now in Nigeria?
The question of stepping into papa’s big shoes will be decided by history and by the attitude of those who are in politics now as regards the contending forces in that history and that politics. Papa was a different kind of person. He was a visionary and he knew what step to take to actualize his vision. So, right now, we have many people who are claiming that they are wearing papa’s glasses, they are wearing papa’s cap. But at the end of the day, those things are not what will decide who will lead Yoruba or lead Nigerians as papa Awolowo had done. What will definitely determine what in fact papa Awolowo had done and somebody say he wants to take over would be that person’s attitude towards Nigeria as a nation, towards Yoruba tribe and whatever. Because papa Awolowo used to say before you can be a good Nigerian citizen, you must first and foremost be a good person from your tribe. That is what is happening. The person to lead as papa led us may just be trying to enter the university now. Even if he’s in politics now, he may just be trying to build a kind of integrity that will be acknowledged by everybody. So, we should not be in a rush. All those who are thinking they are Awolowo incarnate, good luck to them because they are trying to imitate him, a great man, so good luck to them. As far as I’m concerned, I’m lucky enough to have been trained and brought up by papa Awolowo and everything that I’ve done in my life, have been patterned on the life of papa Awolowo, and I’m sure that many other people who have the opportunity and then many other things will place in their hands to say you can make a trust for papa Awolowo’s leadership. The people of Nigeria are going to see it and they are going to concede to that fellow.
What would you say about the fact that Asiwaju Bola Tinubu did what baba Awolowo tried to do by making Yoruba actually get power at the centre and bring them into the mainstream of national politics?
This mainstream; I have always called it ‘mainstream nonsense’. It’s not a question of talking about Asiwaju Bola Tinubu now, no. Bola is a young man I like; quite younger than me in age, and I understand the policy of Bola. For example, Bola will not ascribe or will not allow anybody to use his name against what you have said. What is mainstream? When the PDP came into power in 1999, some people were saying Obasanjo has brought Yoruba to the mainstream. What mainstream? The Yoruba has always been in the mainstream. When papa Awolowo had the Action Group, he was in alliance with the UNBC of Solomon Takar. He was in alliance with the people from Borno. The Borno Youth Movement, he was in alliance with people from Cross River state and Akwa Ibom state now. He led a Pan-Nigerian Progressive movement. The same way in the UPN, we have people in the assembly in Cross River, we have people in the assembly in Imo state, I think we have one member in Kano state. At one time, we ran government together with the GNPP of Waziri Ibrahim in Adamawa state. So, there has been no time where the Yoruba have not been a part of the mainstream. But quite unfortunately, there was a time in the history of this country, and that is correct, where a group of people feel that people in the north believe that Nigeria must remain Nigeria for as long as it is a permanent extension of their own territory. Nobody must aspire to rule except them. But that jinx has been broken. So Nigerians from all walks of life are now becoming president. So we should not play up this mainstream. Bola is doing his best and that is Bola’s politics. I’m not in APC with him. If I had to be in the APC with him, Bola knows himself that he will have to give respect, total respect to people like me because we don’t cheapen our participation and involvement in Nigerian politics, no. Our performance in the Nigerian politics is not because of money or what we are going to get from it. It is because of principles of uniting Nigeria and making sure that the people of Nigeria are the motive.
Would you say that Bola Tinubu’s alliance with the northern elements to form APC and of course install the APC in power would actually lead to his political suicide?
No, he’s doing well. What he did is good. It is quite good for the APC. They are now in power. It is not a question of aligning himself with the North. We, in the PDP, we are amalgam of all the various political interests in Nigeria, and that we still represent up till today. So, you cannot say Bola Tinubu is signing his political death warrant. No. He can only sign his political death warrant when he himself, with his own hand signs away all those things that make him a very strong politician now. It can happen to him, and that is why he must be very careful the way he treats those who are his colleagues. But like I said, Bola is one phenomenon, you cannot ignore. You have to know that Bola Tinubu exists politically and you must concede to him that he has been correct in his analysis. That they are now in power, he did a lot to actualize it. If the APC destroys him, the APC will eventually destroy itself. That’s all.
There’s a debate on, and of course as a political disciple of the late chief Awolowo, you are in the best position to talk about this. The debate is about the Yoruba nation, the Yoruba people and the leadership question. Former President Olusegun Obasanjo recently said in his book, My Watch; Politics and Public service that the Yoruba has never had a truly elected leader?
That is not correct! That is false! Absolutely false! Former President Obasanjo knows that he was not talking from the angle of historical truth. The Yoruba are not a sentimental people. Yoruba are pains-taking and Yoruba are very careful in arriving at political decisions. Papa Obafemi Awolowo was an acknowledged leader of the Yoruba people and Nigerian people. The conference that former president Obasanjo was talking about took place in 1966, General Adeyinka Adebayo (rtd), he was then the governor of the old western region. He convened the meeting, papa’s choice as leader of Yoruba as per what was happening in Nigeria at that time was unanimous. Nobody ever got up to say ‘no we don’t accept your leadership.’ No, they threw away all those sentiments and I will tell you something I have never told Nigerians before except probably I have mentioned it in my column. When papa died in 1987, Chief Richard Akinjide was in London. I was in Buckingham University reading Law. Chief Richard Akinjide wrote me a letter, I will not forget, it’s being published now in my book which I’m releasing. He wrote me a letter, commiserating with me on the death of baba Awolowo. So you see, the Yoruba know when to separate politics from trivialities. The Yoruba definitely know when realities end and illusions take over. So papa Awolowo was acknowledged as leader and papa did not say that because I’m leader, therefore I should fall. No. he respected the opinion of everybody and then the Chief Akinloye that Obasanjo mentioned. Chief Akinloye was in the same party with papa Awolowo in the Action Group from 1952 until we had the coup of 1966. So under no circumstance will I arguably have got up to say I don’t like your leadership. He never said so until he died. So Yoruba will definitely provide leadership when occasion calls for it. We will have the leader and the leader will go and fight for our cause but we will first fight that cause within the federation of Nigeria.
After the demise of Chief Awolowo, we had Pa Adekunle Ajasin stepping into that position to provide leadership for the Yoruba people especially during that era, we also had Pa Adesanya also stepping in after the demise of Pa Ajasin, after that the Afenifere came together and elected Pa Reuben Fasaranti to be the leader of Afenifere but it seems that the Yoruba have not been able to agree on who is the authentic leader of the Yoruba as we speak?
Because the occasion has not called for it, even when the occasion calls for it, for example- if the Yoruba’s interest have been threatened in Nigeria, that is the occasion calling for it and we have our leader. You are talking about Afenifere, I was a big part of Afenifere. It will interest you to know that I am not in Afenifere, I do not understand what Afenifere stands for, for now. But all the leaders of Afenifere were my leaders in the UPN and when it comes to individual perception of events, I must join myself with what they are thinking, so it is not a question of Yoruba are not able to pick a leader. Papa Ajasin and papa Adesanya, they were leaders, despite the fact that I was not a part of the Afenifere that they led, if they had called on me and many of my groups to participate in activities, I will definitely have given it because I know them, I know they are transparently honest Nigerians and their integrity is very high and it should be respected, so it is not a question of that.
About Unknown
Teryila Ibn Apine is a public affairs analyst and a blogger.
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